OuttaDeeBox Podcast

From Isolation to Inspiration and Change

• Dee Star • Season 6 • Episode 3

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What if the darkest moments of your life could be transformed into a beacon of hope and change? Join us as we share the extraordinary stories of Mustafa-El Ajala and Chi-Town Taurus, who turned their incarceration into powerful tales of redemption. Mustafa's path to discovering Islam while in prison, inspired by Malcolm X, became a catalyst for profound personal growth and a lifelong commitment to legal aid and community service. Meanwhile, Chi-Town's journey highlights the healing power of music and friendship, particularly his connection with Mustafa, as a means to re-enter society and express his newfound purpose. These narratives challenge the notion of incarceration as solely punitive, revealing it as a potential springboard for personal and societal transformation.

The harsh reality of solitary confinement is laid bare through the eyes of those who have endured its isolating grip. We explore the dual nature of this experience—how it can forge inner strength while simultaneously inflicting deep psychological wounds. Personal accounts of prolonged isolation highlight its status as a violation of fundamental human rights, echoing the global consensus that such conditions constitute a form of torture. Our discussion shines a light on the systemic misuse of solitary confinement as a punitive tool, urging the need for reform. Through these stories, we confront this practice's urgent ethical questions and advocate for a justice system rooted in humanity and rehabilitation rather than retribution.

Emerging from the shadows of incarceration, Mustafa and Chi-Town Taurus exemplify resilience and transformation. Their challenges upon release were immense, yet their stories stand as testaments to the strength and wisdom born from adversity. We reflect on the diverse impacts of incarceration, acknowledging that while the experience breaks some, others harness it as a catalyst for profound personal growth and societal contribution. Their journeys offer inspiration and insight into the broader societal implications of supporting formerly incarcerated individuals. This episode is a tribute to their courage and the potential for positive change within ourselves and our communities.

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Speaker 1:

What's up everybody. This is your host D-Star here with this is Mustafa El-Ajala.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and how's the?

Speaker 3:

Shaitan to us.

Speaker 1:

How y'all doing man.

Speaker 3:

Alhamdulillah, alhamdulillah, I'm well Excellent man Beautiful day.

Speaker 1:

So for the people that don't know you, mustafa, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Speaker 3:

Yes, as I say, I'm Mustafa El-upelo area. I've served a significant amount of time incarcerated, picked up litigation skills, legal aid, legal assistant. I still do that work today. I've done work for pro se litigants, for myself and for lawyers. I'm out here still doing it and still fighting and striving to try to better myself, my family, my community and nation as a whole.

Speaker 2:

Shantown Torres in the building. I did it quite a few years myself In the process of me being incarcerated. My first time I ended up meeting this brother, mustafa. Here I was actually transported from the federal system to the Supermax and processing me coming home. By the time I got to the Supermax I had about six and a half years left to go home, ended up on the range with this brother, we were already familiar with each other through the system. In overall scheme of things, we had a chance to, you know, have our own powwow, be next door to each other, build educationally. One of the things I seen in this brother was somebody that I knew for a fact that once I touched down in any shape, form or fashion, I might be contributing to some of the aims and interests this brother might have, and vice versa. So that kept us connected over the years.

Speaker 1:

And just by your name, Chi-Town Tours, we can kind of assume that you're from Chicago, right?

Speaker 2:

You know Chicago in terms of inner city kids, Chicago as well as what you have, chicago with regards to the families that migrate and get into other communities as well. And that was really the whole premise for the Chi-Town Tours thing, that my story was based on me going to the prison system at a young age. I got to get back home. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm trying to get back home and the story of Chi-Town Tours is here's all the things I went through during that journey.

Speaker 2:

In the midst of that journey, I ended up getting involved in music, specifically while I was incarcerated.

Speaker 2:

That was one of the things that occupied my time while I was in the hole and then, by the time I got to the supermax, it was on those conditions that I started thinking or taking a serious in relationship to what I would want to do when I get out and following that path and the hurdles that came with just back to society and reemerging those particular hurdles became a part of the overall, I would say, aesthetics with regard to my brand and what I wanted to put out there, not only just simply where I could be able to shine in the music industry, but to the extent that other individuals, whether they've been incarcerated or not.

Speaker 2:

Here's the hurdles you go through and I think you see it in a much more raw form for people like us that might've been locked down that long and not privy to what you have on an everyday basis in society, but yet and still take what we don't have put it to use in the best way that we possibly can and the connections and the people and the environments we were placing ourselves in have placed ourselves in in order to be able to flourish in that kind of way. You know what I'm saying. To take it to the next level, Absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Take us through your incarceration journey, Mustafa.

Speaker 3:

I was first incarcerated when I was 19 years old, adult incarceration. Well, correction, I have to rewind the tape on that a little bit as well too. My first incarceration as an adult was in the Lake County Jail, illinois. So I was working down there and caught a case down there. It was a theft case, a grand larceny. I was released, came back to Wisconsin, got incarcerated when I was 19. It was an armed robbery. I spent about three years in prison.

Speaker 3:

I read the book, the autobiography of Malcolm X, and that's one of the things that first got me seriously on the trajectory to Islam. So I took my shahada. That's when you make the testimony that you bear witness that there is only one creator. That is, I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and the Prophet Muhammad is his servant and messenger. So I took my shahada. I was Muslim.

Speaker 3:

I reverted to Islam, as some people like to say, because we're born on the future, we all born Muslim and so. But I still was young and still had a lot of street left in me. So when you become Muslim or I would assume any type of faith and you got that much of negative living in you, you know it's not washed out overnight. You know it's a process, just like it was a process, you know, absorbing it in the first place. You know you came out in baby steps, jumped off the porch, started getting into the street. You know you didn't become street smart overnight. You know it's something that was developed. And likewise, you know relearning or learning another way is something that's developed too.

Speaker 3:

So, as a result of that, when I was released from prison after my first incarceration, I made a decision that I was going to go back to the street because I wasn't. One thing I didn't want to be was a hypocrite. So I didn't want to say you know I'm a Muslim, but I know I'm Muslim, and then I'm still selling drugs, I'm Muslim, I'm still doing this, that and the other. I had more respect for Islam than that, and so the choices I made landed me back in prison for a second incarceration which winded up being 30 years and a half.

Speaker 1:

And here I am today. You say here I am today.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I just went to prison for 30 years.

Speaker 1:

Here I am today.

Speaker 3:

It's a lot of you on that ball man. I mean, I'm basically saying, you know, I did 30 years and I'm here now. You know. I mean I survived by the grace of Allah, you know, and it actually wound up being and some people might be surprised to hear this it wound up being a good thing. Not that I spent 30 years in prison, but Allah took that time to fast me into the person I am today, which is a better version of any person I've ever been before. You know what I'm saying. It's still me, the original me that my parents raised me to be.

Speaker 3:

My siblings knew that I was a more fortified way. I kind of had that good nature as a child, by the grace of Allah. You know what I mean. So I was compassionate, I was generous, I was giving. That's the way Allah made me, and all praise be to him. You know, not to me. You know I got more serious about the deen, more serious about Islam, and one thing that you're taught in Islam from the Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him is that you seek that knowledge from the cradle to the grave. That's one thing that you will know about Muslim, that you're going to find one. If he's sincere, he's going to be seeking knowledge, or her for that matter.

Speaker 3:

So one of the trade skills I picked up, one of the forms of knowledge I picked up, was to fight, and how to fight through the legal system, the same system that landed me in prison. So I learned that skill. One of the brothers I mentioned before that was instrumental in me learning the law was a brother named Hannibal Leon Irby, and uh, I can tell you about that story, uh, another time, how we met, but we actually met through me, the short version of it uh, catching another case while in prison, a drug case. So when I came to prison, I didn't come in with an idea to do better. I came in with an idea that, okay, this is what it is, and you know, I'm going to live life, I'm going to do me, as they say nowadays, right, and I was trying to get money to fight the case even more. And I wind up catching a drug case in War Pond Correction Institution in 1995, and that landed me in solitary confinement.

Speaker 3:

And in solitary confinement, which is really something that's designed to destroy you and it does destroy a lot of men. I know men that came to solitary confinement sane and left out insane. But it can also make you stronger. It can also make you learn just how much you can withstand and then also excel while you're withstanding it. You know physically and the brother next to me, shottown Torres, this is some.

Speaker 3:

It became like an obsession. That's why you see a lot of guys in solitary confinement. They're actually in really good shape because we work out all day, we read and study all day and we challenge each other. We play chess all day. You know what I mean. It's all about mental and physical strength and then also, for a person like me, spiritual strength. So when you got those three things combined mental, physical and spiritual strength now you're a threat for a whole other reason. Not because you're going to sell some drugs if we release you from solitary confinement, not because you're going to assault staff or kick off a gang war. Now we're worried about you putting some of that same mess you just learned in your head, in your head, into the head of the youth that's going to go back into society and now challenge us on a whole nother level.

Speaker 1:

So what are some of the things that you learned in solitary and solitary confinement I can't say solitary, you just said it. What are some of the things that you learned in solitary confinement that you felt was the most impactful, that you still carry to this day?

Speaker 3:

Knowing your strength, because I mean you're going to have moments especially if you do, you know, decades in solitary confinement, which is something I've done. I've done more than eight and a half years straight in solitary confinement, Actually how much time have you done in solitary confinement? It's more than 16 years, more than 16 years in solitary confinement.

Speaker 1:

It's more than 16 years, more than 16 years in solitary confinement.

Speaker 3:

It's more than 16 years.

Speaker 1:

So roughly about 17, 16 and a half.

Speaker 3:

Well, let's do the math Two years, another almost seven years, so now we're at about eight years and a half.

Speaker 1:

And then eight and a half years.

Speaker 3:

Almost seven, not quite seven. Then another eight years and approximately a half, so that's 17. And then, even when they released me from solitary confinement, I still was in super max. They were calling the general population, but it was still a form of solitary confinement. You were only getting let out to jail for two hours a day, five days a week. So on Saturday and Sunday you were still in the cell 24 hours a day. So by federal definition that was still solitary confinement. So we can actually extend that eight and a half years to like 11 years, because I had spent the other remainder of that time in what was supposed to be in general population, but it still was really solitary confinement. You was in the cell 22 hours, five days a week and 24 hours on the weekend.

Speaker 1:

That's a long time. You know mentally to be that strong to come out and still have a brain to call upon. You know memories or just how to interact with people, period. You know what I'm saying. It's a whole different world. Some people say the best and worst cellie that they ever had was themselves. That's the best cellie you can have, and the worst cellie that you can have was yourself. Because you can't deal with yourself, man, you ain't going to be able to deal with nobody. Would you guys concur with that?

Speaker 3:

Yes, I concur, that's one of the reasons why you have guys that have those mental breakdowns, because they're dealing with demons that they don't want to face. And if you do that type of time that I've done in solitary confinement and this brother next to me, shoutown Torres, has done at some point in that stretch other people witness the same thing and I'll let him comment whether or not he ever witnessed it. But it's actually like you'll see the walls kind of caving in. Now you know the walls are not moving, but it seems like there's some contraction going on. And when that starts to happen, okay, now you got to get up and shake some stuff off. You know, you got to read, you got to work out, and if you're doing that already, okay, well, let me find something else to do. Hey, out of that hall for me, let's play some chess. But at some point I think it's going to happen if you spend a long enough time in solitary confinement To kind of, you know, put it in contrast, the first time I did solitary confinement time, it was only, it wasn't even a month.

Speaker 3:

I was younger and that month seemed like, hey, this is too long to have anybody in solitary confinement, literally. I know I wound up doing years, but it was something that you had to adjust to and adapt and you're capable of doing it. But some people aren't. But I believe most people are. You know, some people just have certain trauma. In certain ways they're wired. It's just not for them and it's not for any human being period. But Some people are capable of adapting. I was fortunate to be one of those that was able to adapt, use it as a form, as a period of growth for me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think. Well before you start, how long did you do in solitary confinement?

Speaker 2:

I did four years, two months and four days the first time and then the Supermax. At that time it wasn't open, so Supermax at that time was 100 percent lockdown. So that was six years, five months and six days. All total roughly almost 11 years. But I was getting at the fact that it has to be some sort of a status of epic proportion and great magnitude when you have not only the US courts, even the United Nations having declarations made about it and the uses and how you can go about using it right To the extent that you know the CIA and FBI and federal governments around the world are forbidden on how they use this, how long you can be in there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because the duration, whether you're talking about 15 days, 30 days, the duration for a human being to be deprived of these particular things, especially when you think about and this brother could attest to that in probably much more crisp terms but one of the things that the law is designed to address is whether or not your human rights is being violated. Where do these human rights come from? These human rights don't come from another human being. These are the human rights that come from the most high right, and what's going on when you're sitting in a man-made contraption is affecting how you are supposed to naturally function as a human being. So, whether you're talking about a person, the air, your access to sunlight, your access to all the particular things that, as a human being, you are required to have to survive right Now, you take it from a court perspective. From a court perspective, we're placing you in incarceration for what you've done wrong, but to the extent that what you've done wrong, we're not taking away your life. You haven't forfeited that, and that's what the prison system is designed to do. It's supposed to say that well, you've gotten into this bit of trouble, we're going to remove you from society because of this trouble, but to go to the extent where I'm going to start depriving you of natural human processes. I'm going to a certain extent, that is what is considered to be tortured If it's applied in a administrative fashion by any particular government entity in that way. So you know, seeing people in that particular environment, it's not just that those people are going through the process of the walls caving in. They are actually feeling the physical and physiological, neurological and mental effects, possibly even in spiritual effect. That's not calculated a lot of times. But all of these particular effects as a human being are being targeted, and in this particular sense they're being targeted in many cases unjustly, unlawfully, unconstitutionally. And who goes about administering why you are in that cell? This brother spoke about being in that cell and being under attack because he's developed this newfound litigation.

Speaker 2:

It was before I did this. I did this wrong thing before. Right, here's a rule that I shouldn't violate. Ok, we all come to the agreement that you, as the administration, you now saying that for that violation I get to sit in this cell. But now you've gone beyond that because I'm not violating the law anymore. In fact, one of the ideas that I would bring to this brother, his other extent in Supermax came from writing news articles about what's going wrong in the system. So you're not placing me in what they're classifying as torturous situations anymore because I did something wrong. This isn't a punishment status. You see what I'm saying. You've taken and gone beyond the fact that I might've done something wrong.

Speaker 2:

You said well, I got this contraption that I know for a fact has been declared by my government or government entities that, however I use this, it can be utilized as a harmful tool. And I'm using, I'm now weaponizing something that's already declared by entity like the United States Supreme Court or the United Nations has all declared in Geneva, accords and things of that magnitude. Right, that if you use this status, status in this particular method, in this particular fashion, we know that these are the type of harms that it should pose to a person. Right, and we are forbidding you from doing that, even under conditions where this person has gotten themselves in some trouble. But now you've gone beyond that and said I know that you as a court or you as a legal entity, said or forbid us from doing that. And not only am I going to go beyond that, I'm going to use this when I don't feel like, well, this person here is bowing down to my dominion. I don't want him to learn the law.

Speaker 1:

Him learning the law poses a threat to my system and my orderly running of things like that and that goes all the way back to even slavery days, when they were saying black people get in trouble just for even reading. You know what I mean. So it's deeper than that and it's just a horrible, horrible form of control. You know, just to call it what it is torture. So I guess when you take something away, you have to replace it with something right? So what would be the alternative to segregation? As far as if there is no segregation, if we don't have that form of punishment, what would be the form of punishment in prison? What would deter one inmate from harming another inmate? If they didn't have that deterrent, what would you put in place?

Speaker 3:

of that. That's an interesting word, deterrent because one of the problems is that there's no deterrent for abuse of power. So you have correctional officers. Just think about it.

Speaker 3:

If you had the ability that any time somebody upset you, you could exact punishment without any repercussions to you you made me mad. I can slap you, I can throw you away for a year and never have to see you again. And so, even if I violate the law, there's no money out of my pocket. If you file a lawsuit, I don't have to pay it. I'm not losing my job. I'm not losing my job. I'm not getting demoted. In many cases I'm getting promoted. There's no deterrent. There's every incentive for a correctional officer to abuse his power because they're protected and they will form ranks around that officer, they will go to bat for him and at the end of the day because I've litigated many cases, settled many cases and the AAG, the assistant attorney general, who was actually representing the DOC at the time, almost pretty much saying so many words Look, I have to represent them. I can't do nothing about it. We can offer you some money. Can't take back what happened, but that's one of the problems.

Speaker 1:

And I understand that 100 percent.

Speaker 3:

But that's one of the problems.

Speaker 1:

And I understand that 100%.

Speaker 3:

Going back to the question, yeah, yeah, a couple of years ago I was in the Virginia Department of Correction. The punishment has to be proportionate. It's not that there should be no deterrent, but it has to be proportionate. An example in that system you would not spend 30 days in solitary confinement. The most you would probably spend is 15 days. I'm talking about it's been fights on the yard where it's like. I'm talking about the prison recreation yard, where it's like six guys on one, but it's usually people that are dealing with their own. You know, whether you are Latino, whether you are European, aryan nation groups, whatever, you know different groups there, whether you're Muslim you know what I'm saying whether you're black, crip, blood, whatever. In most cases it's people that deal with their own and don't cross that line in terms of attacking or dealing or crossing the line with other groups or people.

Speaker 3:

So what you have, just like in any society, prison is just a small. It's a microcosm of the major society. Right, you're going to regulate society yourself. You don't need the police at your doorstep following you everywhere you go, telling you what and what not to do. We are human beings, we are social people, so certain things are going to take place. It's not going to be chaos, just like it's not total chaos in society. But one thing is that it has to be proportionate.

Speaker 3:

So in that system where you don't spend more than 15 days or so in solitary confinement, if you spend up to 30 days, there's actually a program. When I was there it was called a STAR program, and so the program is if you spend 30 days in solitary confinement, you take this program and you can decide to go to any other prison in that system that's at that same level you're at. So if you're a medium custody, it can be another medium prison, if you're a maximum custody, it could be another maximum prison and so on and so forth. But that just goes to show you.

Speaker 3:

When I told him how much time I served in solitary confinement in Wisconsin, if you saw the look on their face, it's like what? It was unbelievable. I was like, yeah, man, I said in Wisconsin you do years in solitary confinement, 30 days. You do that just on TLU, temporary lockup, while they're investigating whether or not they're going to give you a charge. So that's the difference, man, wisconsin. And in the system where you don't have a lot of violent crime don't get me wrong. A person can get killed in the Wisconsin system just as anywhere else. Jeffrey Dahmer an example. It happens, but it's not prevalent.

Speaker 1:

I got to push back on you because I don't feel like that. You answered my question. I mean, you answered it, but I guess's not the the answer that I was looking for. Like I said, what would be the alternative to solitary confinement, because that's what I'm thinking that the listeners is going to be like. Okay, I'm with you, it is punishment, it is torture, because I mean it is, it has been classified as that and it has been weaponized as that. If we can't use that, what do we put in place of that as punishment or deterrent?

Speaker 3:

Well, there's a bunch of things already in place. Maybe I'll elaborate a little bit. One they restrict your visitation so you can get denied visits for 30 days or more. You can have a loss of electronics.

Speaker 3:

One thing guys do when they're incarcerated because you're away from society they have tablets. Now, I mean you don't have internet access, but you do have the ability to send emails, to look certain things up, like K-Lite, khan Academy. I think they're bringing that in Wisconsin as well. I know they have it in some other systems, including Virginia Telephone. They're starting to let guys use the telephone on their tablets. So basically they have a cell phone without Internet access. So that's one of the means of communicating and I think now they're also going to start letting them have visits on the tablet. It's about a little 7-inch tablet. So those are the type of things that can be done and that's already being done. But it seems in Wisconsin they go straight from 0 to 60 instead of 0 to maybe 5, 10, 15, 20 miles an hour. So they go straight zero to 60, throw you in the hole for a whole year for a little bit of nothing.

Speaker 1:

Okay, Now I'm going to challenge you guys again On my program. I always like to ask this question what do you feel that the DOC is doing right?

Speaker 2:

I'll get to that. I wanted to add in to what a deter know a deterrent would be in terms of solitary confinement. His answer was really similar to what I was thinking. You do realize, on a federal level you don't do more than 30 days unless it's something massive, and that's what really we're getting at. Is that a lot of the things that you're talking about in prison is tantamount to a traffic ticket. So should a person do 360 days in solitary confinement for a traffic ticket, right? Should a person do 360 days in solitary confinement because he cussed out a prison guard? Should a person do 365 days? I'll give you an exact example.

Speaker 2:

There's this guy that used to be in prison. When I came back from the super supermassive, they called him Godfather. He was in. I think it was in Oshkosh or Kettle Moran. He's one of them guys that liked to smoke cigarettes and he caught a prison guard slipping. Prison guard had a cigarette. Instead of putting the cigarette all the way out, he dropped it in the ashtray and went and turned his back. Well, this guy's figured. Well, it's already lit, I ain't even got to get no light. So he went and got the cigarette and they caught him on camera with the cigarette, but he wanted to take a puff. So now he took off running. He took off running to finish the little butt.

Speaker 2:

How long do you think he should be in solitary confinement for a cigarette as a grown man, at 30, 40 years old? And we might say, well, that disrupted the institution. Did that disrupt the institution enough for this guy to be sitting in solitary confinement for the next four or five years, be dumped off into society without all the proper addressing of his treatment in this 9-3rd, to the point where now he's even more debilitated than he was when he did this particular act. And that's commonplace. More commonplace that if you actually did the investigation on what people are going to solitary confinement for, you will find that most people are not going to solitary confinement for any kind of violent activity. So when you put it in that context, the deterrent would be is the system putting in place something, as he was saying, that actually addresses the offense? Because if you're not, then guess what? If I'm a person faced with the prospect that you're going to condemn me for a year, two years, three years for what I did, I'm liable to be even more violent Because you're going to harm me. You see what I'm saying, and this is proven in psychology. Psychiatrists around the country, top psychiatrists, neurologists around the world would tell you that the human being faced with certain prospects, fight or flight. They're going to choose one another, right. So there's already a percentage of people that, regardless of what our deterrent is, they're going to fight regardless Because you put them in that position of feeling like, well, I got nothing to lose. These individuals are having all sorts of number of breakdowns emotionally, life-wise, lifetime crisis, right. And, as opposed to ever having the appropriate things in place to address what they're going through, we'll lock them up. And then, when they're locked up, are they being provided with the appropriate treatment so that they can address whatever the original problem was? And if they're not, well, lock them up even more. So it's hard to come up with a deterrent.

Speaker 2:

If you're saying that the administration of the process of being solitary is willy-nilly, as opposed to across the board, I can attest to.

Speaker 2:

I've been in the federal system. In the federal system, it's not going to matter if you had an assault Now. If that assault is so egregious that you don't know how to conduct yourself, we got places for you, right? There's a reason you get escalated up to the ADX, but I shouldn't be subject to ADX treatment in this prison over here. This is supposed to be a medium prison. How are you using solitary confinement in a medium prison, a regular maximum security prison, and saying that, well, I can lock you up there and I can put these allegations on you, and I can as a person, as a human being, you know what I'm thought that you, because of this now, and third, and by the time you come up out of solitary confinement, this person don't make captain, you don't make more debilitating steps in life, a more of a separation from your family, community, more separation, because a lot of these people keep in mind that we're talking about hypothetically, but actuality. Most of these people are coming back to society.

Speaker 1:

I think this is over 80% of people that's in prison will one day come home. And I always tell people this I'm like yo. These people are your neighbors, these are people's kids. Go to school with your kids. They go to the same libraries, they listen to the same music. They're going to shop at the same grocery stores. You know, when you go to Summerfest, they'll be there. When you go to the state fair, those kids, those same kids, will be there. You know what I'm saying. And if they don't have the proper upbringing, they don't have a father in their home or they don't have a mother, it affects them. So this is it's not just our community, it's our community, all of us. You know what I'm saying. So we got to do right by everybody, not just, you know, do right by some.

Speaker 1:

You know what I'm saying and we can't forget the people that's locked up and that's in prison because, like I said, they're still a part of our community, because they will be home one day. You guys got out and went right, but we know everybody don't go out and go right. Some people go out and go left. You know what I'm saying. So you guys are really blessed that you did that much time and still kept your mind. A lot of people that do that type of time. They don't come out mentally the same. You know what I mean. They don't.

Speaker 1:

It seemed like you guys, you know, even said you know you came out sharper, you feel that you're wiser. It feels like you learned from that situation. It actually made you strong. It breaks some people and some people are never the same and I talked to a lot of people you know in that situation and that's came back from that situation and sometimes they don't come back the same. You know it didn't do what it did for y'all. You know what I'm saying. So really y'all need to be proud of yourselves. I really appreciate both of you brothers being here. Man, seriously, thank you guys.

Speaker 3:

So much Thank you for having us brother man. It's my pleasure, my honor oh.

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